Comments on: The Small Demonstrations of Disloyalty http://www.maclakeonline.com/leadership/the-small-demonstrations-of-disloyalty/ Description goes here Wed, 08 Feb 2012 03:42:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: charles hill http://www.maclakeonline.com/leadership/the-small-demonstrations-of-disloyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-1610 charles hill Thu, 10 Feb 2011 03:19:43 +0000 http://www.maclakeonline.com/?p=3070#comment-1610 Right on bro. Great practical advice with solid Biblical backing my man! Sounds like a new sermon for me! Appreciate your ministry bro! Right on bro. Great practical advice with solid Biblical backing my man! Sounds like a new sermon for me! Appreciate your ministry bro!

]]> By: Phil Klein http://www.maclakeonline.com/leadership/the-small-demonstrations-of-disloyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-1609 Phil Klein Wed, 09 Feb 2011 14:40:44 +0000 http://www.maclakeonline.com/?p=3070#comment-1609 Mac, Thanks for the teaching. It's spot on. A result of subtle wandering of alignment with the leader often eventually causes people to focus on what THEY THINK the vision and goals are vs. their God appointed leader. According to a recent Harvard Review article, research shows that a full 37% of employee (members of an organization) activity is not aligned with overall organizational strategy. Mac,
Thanks for the teaching. It’s spot on. A result of subtle wandering of alignment with the leader often eventually causes people to focus on what THEY THINK the vision and goals are vs. their God appointed leader. According to a recent Harvard Review article, research shows that a full 37% of employee (members of an organization) activity is not aligned with overall organizational strategy.

]]> By: Lura Hewett http://www.maclakeonline.com/leadership/the-small-demonstrations-of-disloyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-805 Lura Hewett Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:43:47 +0000 http://www.maclakeonline.com/?p=3070#comment-805 Yes, I do believe that sometimes we might have to question things. Not long ago, I, with shaky feet, called to speak with my minister. I have never done this ever before, but I was very troubled my own self and had heard one or two comments from different people, it was as if I were being pushed to do this. He had said "I am so disgusted with you people," which he repeated 3 times, louder each time, even pointing his fingers to the audience. I later was told that there plans were being made to get rid of him. I went in and asked what he meant by being disgusted---did we not dance around when singing (we have a prayer and praise service where this is done), I just couldn't imagine what he meant. Obviously no one else had approached him, as he just shook his said in disbelief, saying he just didn't think the church was growing spiritually enough and not enough new members being brought in. I told him one thing I had learned in life was a soft voice turneth away wrath, that encouraging us to do better might work out better, that we cannot expect things to happen on our time schedule...that if we are doing God's will, we should not be expecting instant results...God works on His own time schedule. The next week the church board met with him and decided to work with him for a year. I do not know what what will be the outcome, but I have seen what seems to be an humbling of himself. I do hope the vote is to keep him. Yes, I do believe that sometimes we might have to question things. Not long ago, I, with shaky feet, called to speak with my minister. I have never done this ever before, but I was very troubled my own self and had heard one or two comments from different people, it was as if I were being pushed to do this. He had said “I am so disgusted with you people,” which he repeated 3 times, louder each time, even pointing his fingers to the audience. I later was told that there plans were being made to get rid of him. I went in and asked what he meant by being disgusted—did we not dance around when singing (we have a prayer and praise service where this is done), I just couldn’t imagine what he meant. Obviously no one else had approached him, as he just shook his said in disbelief, saying he just didn’t think the church was growing spiritually enough and not enough new members being brought in. I told him one thing I had learned in life was a soft voice turneth away wrath, that encouraging us to do better might work out better, that we cannot expect things to happen on our time schedule…that if we are doing God’s will, we should not be expecting instant results…God works on His own time schedule.
The next week the church board met with him and decided to work with him for a year. I do not know what what will be the outcome, but I have seen what seems to be an humbling of himself. I do hope the vote is to keep him.

]]> By: Jason http://www.maclakeonline.com/leadership/the-small-demonstrations-of-disloyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-803 Jason Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:04:26 +0000 http://www.maclakeonline.com/?p=3070#comment-803 @reid: You made me laugh hard, dude...I have absolutely no problem with my pastor! :) Valid questions can be asked without problems with your pastor. :) @reid: You made me laugh hard, dude…I have absolutely no problem with my pastor! :) Valid questions can be asked without problems with your pastor. :)

]]> By: Tinz http://www.maclakeonline.com/leadership/the-small-demonstrations-of-disloyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-802 Tinz Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:43:02 +0000 http://www.maclakeonline.com/?p=3070#comment-802 Awesome article. Great information too. God bless! Awesome article. Great information too.
God bless!

]]> By: Doug Franklin http://www.maclakeonline.com/leadership/the-small-demonstrations-of-disloyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-801 Doug Franklin Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:21:11 +0000 http://www.maclakeonline.com/?p=3070#comment-801 Mac - very insightful Mac – very insightful

]]> By: reid klos http://www.maclakeonline.com/leadership/the-small-demonstrations-of-disloyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-800 reid klos Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:16:14 +0000 http://www.maclakeonline.com/?p=3070#comment-800 @Jason - Man it sounds like you need to spend a little more time with God in prayer so He can help you let go of some anxiety towards your pastor. Maclake clearly stated: "While it’s not likely that you’re planning on overthrowing the Senior Pastor at your church or CEO of your organization we still have to be careful in our daily interactions to demonstrate flawless loyalty to our leaders." Your rebuttal comes from a place of offense, instead of being unbiased and taking the lesson. The Bible's recollections don't have to fit a situation exactly for God to make a point. He recently reminded me Noah's life as an answer to whether I should leave the company I'm with for a "better opportunity." What does the flood, the ark, and a dove have to do with corporate america? That being said, your questions are valid. Yet the Bible is clear on how we are to deal with leaders, good or bad, Christian or heathen, if that is who God has placed over us then we are to follow because ultimately God is the leader. What if he tells you to do something wrong? of course you don't do it. What if she is doing something against God? First you need to ask God what to do and if you feel impressed, or you are flat out told to speak TO THAT LEADER then that's what you do. God is able to hold His own. Didn't He say that He sets up kings and takes them down? Hasn't He shown that to be the case? Whispering in the ears of others about the wrong being done doesn't help the situation at all. Everybody isn't as strong as you to handle seeing a Christian leader going astray. Be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove, man. Find some prayer warriors in your church that are willing to go to God about the issues that you see. It's apparent that you are devastated by his behavior. The song says, "...Oh, what peace we often forfeit, Oh, what needless pain we bear, All because we do not carry Everything to God in prayer!" @maclake - dude, kudos to you for bringing this out. As men it is especially hard for us to follow either an incompetent leader or an evil one. Yet, the Word shows us over and over again what God expects out of us as His children: David under Saul, Joseph under Egypt, Daniel under numerous dynasties, Christians under Rome... I especially needed to be reminded of this today. I've been on a roller coaster of being positive to being negative to being neutral about the seemingly chaotic leadership of the organization God has placed me in. Humility wasn't a strong suit for me, yet I've found in learning to be humble and to lean on God I've become stronger. yes the subtle complaints come out: "why would they do that," "what are they thinking," "Is she serious," "It would be easier/better if we..." And being the only professed Christian in the group I am looked at more and my attitude does have more sway. Even when people come to my office to complain it's more to vent and to gain encouragement than to have company in the misery. So, I am learning to take my complaints to our Father as they come so that I'm able to give my coworkers encouragement and my leaders the proper boost that they need in the eyes of the people. If the leader is as whack as we imagine, he doesn't need any help from us to continue looking bad. Just Christ @Jason – Man it sounds like you need to spend a little more time with God in prayer so He can help you let go of some anxiety towards your pastor. Maclake clearly stated: “While it’s not likely that you’re planning on overthrowing the Senior Pastor at your church or CEO of your organization we still have to be careful in our daily interactions to demonstrate flawless loyalty to our leaders.”
Your rebuttal comes from a place of offense, instead of being unbiased and taking the lesson. The Bible’s recollections don’t have to fit a situation exactly for God to make a point. He recently reminded me Noah’s life as an answer to whether I should leave the company I’m with for a “better opportunity.” What does the flood, the ark, and a dove have to do with corporate america?
That being said, your questions are valid. Yet the Bible is clear on how we are to deal with leaders, good or bad, Christian or heathen, if that is who God has placed over us then we are to follow because ultimately God is the leader. What if he tells you to do something wrong? of course you don’t do it. What if she is doing something against God? First you need to ask God what to do and if you feel impressed, or you are flat out told to speak TO THAT LEADER then that’s what you do. God is able to hold His own. Didn’t He say that He sets up kings and takes them down? Hasn’t He shown that to be the case?
Whispering in the ears of others about the wrong being done doesn’t help the situation at all. Everybody isn’t as strong as you to handle seeing a Christian leader going astray. Be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove, man. Find some prayer warriors in your church that are willing to go to God about the issues that you see. It’s apparent that you are devastated by his behavior. The song says, “…Oh, what peace we often forfeit, Oh, what needless pain we bear, All because we do not carry Everything to God in prayer!”

@maclake – dude, kudos to you for bringing this out. As men it is especially hard for us to follow either an incompetent leader or an evil one. Yet, the Word shows us over and over again what God expects out of us as His children: David under Saul, Joseph under Egypt, Daniel under numerous dynasties, Christians under Rome…
I especially needed to be reminded of this today. I’ve been on a roller coaster of being positive to being negative to being neutral about the seemingly chaotic leadership of the organization God has placed me in. Humility wasn’t a strong suit for me, yet I’ve found in learning to be humble and to lean on God I’ve become stronger. yes the subtle complaints come out: “why would they do that,” “what are they thinking,” “Is she serious,” “It would be easier/better if we…” And being the only professed Christian in the group I am looked at more and my attitude does have more sway. Even when people come to my office to complain it’s more to vent and to gain encouragement than to have company in the misery. So, I am learning to take my complaints to our Father as they come so that I’m able to give my coworkers encouragement and my leaders the proper boost that they need in the eyes of the people. If the leader is as whack as we imagine, he doesn’t need any help from us to continue looking bad.

Just Christ

]]> By: Julia http://www.maclakeonline.com/leadership/the-small-demonstrations-of-disloyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-799 Julia Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:11:23 +0000 http://www.maclakeonline.com/?p=3070#comment-799 I was simply looking over my twitter tweets this morning and I came across a link for this...and as much as I hate to admit this....I hardly ever read them. I am so glad that I did. I am a pastor's wife and for years I have had it set in my mind what loyalty truly means. I can honestly say, that I have expected A LOT from not only my husband, but others where loyalty is concerned. Thanks to your article, I realize that I need to humbly seek forgiveness for my lack of loyalty at times towards my husband and other people that are serving in a leadership position. Thank you so much for this thought provoking article. I totally GET the message that you are trying to convey. Great job! I was simply looking over my twitter tweets this morning and I came across a link for this…and as much as I hate to admit this….I hardly ever read them. I am so glad that I did.

I am a pastor’s wife and for years I have had it set in my mind what loyalty truly means. I can honestly say, that I have expected A LOT from not only my husband, but others where loyalty is concerned.

Thanks to your article, I realize that I need to humbly seek forgiveness for my lack of loyalty at times towards my husband and other people that are serving in a leadership position. Thank you so much for this thought provoking article. I totally GET the message that you are trying to convey. Great job!

]]> By: Jason http://www.maclakeonline.com/leadership/the-small-demonstrations-of-disloyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-798 Jason Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:27:29 +0000 http://www.maclakeonline.com/?p=3070#comment-798 I'm not a church leader...just a layperson...but your blog post really comes across to me completely opposite your likely intent. I understand how disloyalty can undermine a leader...but your example of Absalom shows someone deliberately attempting to create disloyalty with the intent of taking over the Kingdom. He was starting his coup. I see that as an incredibly different situation than a staff member who questions some decisions made by the senior pastor. For example, if the senior pastor of a church is spending thousands of church dollars on fancy cars only they drive or spending every other weekend flying to speak at events on the church's dime I would want a staff member to speak up and ask if that is really the wisest way to spend the church's funds. (I.E. could the conference be picking up the tab for the pastor's appearance? Why wasn't a nice, new four door Chevy at half the cost of what was purchased sufficient for the needs of the pastor and his family?) The post just reads to me like someone saying we should never question the leaders and their decisions. If a senior leader is making decisions that reflect poorly on the church, are you saying it's better to resign and leave the church to falter rather than speaking up? I’m not a church leader…just a layperson…but your blog post really comes across to me completely opposite your likely intent.

I understand how disloyalty can undermine a leader…but your example of Absalom shows someone deliberately attempting to create disloyalty with the intent of taking over the Kingdom. He was starting his coup. I see that as an incredibly different situation than a staff member who questions some decisions made by the senior pastor.

For example, if the senior pastor of a church is spending thousands of church dollars on fancy cars only they drive or spending every other weekend flying to speak at events on the church’s dime I would want a staff member to speak up and ask if that is really the wisest way to spend the church’s funds. (I.E. could the conference be picking up the tab for the pastor’s appearance? Why wasn’t a nice, new four door Chevy at half the cost of what was purchased sufficient for the needs of the pastor and his family?)

The post just reads to me like someone saying we should never question the leaders and their decisions. If a senior leader is making decisions that reflect poorly on the church, are you saying it’s better to resign and leave the church to falter rather than speaking up?

]]> By: Jenni Catron http://www.maclakeonline.com/leadership/the-small-demonstrations-of-disloyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-797 Jenni Catron Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:17:58 +0000 http://www.maclakeonline.com/?p=3070#comment-797 Great, great thoughts Mac! Great, great thoughts Mac!

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